The church does not seem to raise proactive men

Dave Schmelzer wrote an interesting article highligting the "Trend with Men"

http://notreligious.typepad.com/notreligious/2009/07/trends-with-men.html

I have responded there - but I thought I can highlight my responce here as well.

I would love to hear your comments.

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I find your blog quite interesting and probably have a counter-Christian-culture viewpoint.

It is true that the Church does not attract 'a certain sort of men' - I would call - the 'Proactive' type. I have met many attractive women who have said that they get the attention they 'deserve' in the world - not in the church.

I disagree that pornography or sexual immorality is the root cause for not being proactive in church. I find that the men who are proactive in the world - have no value system to say pornography or sexual immorality might be wrong. So they go out and experiment with sex and 'achieve'. They are rewarded immensely for their proactive attitude. This in turn ingrains in their psyche that they can conquer anything.

I was at a "worldly" bachelor party recently, where the whole aim of the game was to drink and to go to strip clubs. I had a few drinks but did not go to the strip club with them. Here are some observations from hanging out with them:
- They were not afraid of interacting with pretty women (on the street), since they had seen 'them' naked already. When they were at the club, they actually found women, and initiated conversation.
- They were more accomplished in their age group as opposed to a similar aged average 'Christians'.
- The younger ones learnt from the older ones how to be daring.

Again, I am not condoning their actions. These are just my observations.

In church, a lot of 'proactive' chrisitan men I have met, have been (in the past) in environments that they had experimented with sex, drug and/or alcohol. They learnt to be 'proactive' before meeting Jesus. In the process of 'daring' to break the rule, something gets buildup in their psyche that might be hard to come by otherwise. They come into church with that attitude.

However the good old boys in the church - who grow up in the church - where would they learn to be proactive?
After a boy becomes a 'Christian' he is told not do sex, drugs and not too much alcohol.
He is told to read his bible and pray. He is told to 'surrender' all to Jesus.
How does he learn to 'dare' - and find a place to exert his will?

The few places there might be proactivity in the church - is evangelism and leading bible studies.
Is that enough. The boy tries to tell a few people about Jesus - but then he kinda stops, because it does not seem to go anywhere. The boy also leads a few bible studies, but then what? What is he rewarded with?
Is he able to learn to go to pretty women, and start conversation and date them?

In the bachelor party I was at - the beta men were learning from the alpha males how to interact and 'win' a woman. They were not learning to be husbands or fathers. They were learning how to be proactive with their masculinity and sexuality. In church, it is hard to grow up in those areas.

The 'wild at heart' book highlights three universal desires of men: a battle to fight, an adventure to live, and a beauty to rescue. There are many ways to achieve those principles. Eldredge's favorite way is to go to the woods - and experience nature. Maybe that satisfies the first two universal desires, but I am not sure how that satisfies the third (especially for single men)? The guys at the bachelor party, had the three universal desires incorporated in the getaway.

In the 'world', there are more oppertunities for men to learn to be proactive especially regarding women, than in the church. I find the church culture quite feminine in nature. It is designed to 'surrender' all to Jesus so he can 'lead' you. To 'surrender' is biblical - I totally agree. It is predominently what is being is being preached from the church. However, if a boy - who has not learnt to be proactive, comes to church and is told to 'surrender' all, what is he learning? Is he rewarded for proactivity? Can he grow into that 'go-getter' man from the church's preaching? I would say not.

There is a place to 'surrender all to Jesus' for men, however it comes AFTER he learns the place of proactivity especially regarding women. It is in that place of struggle where men are formed. Men have to know they can 'achieve' and conquer - even in their own ability. ONLY then can they surrender the full breadth of the inner desire, knowing when God says, conquer 'this', they know they can!!

I am not condoning sin, as much as noticing how 'sinful' men seem to have achieved something that I never learnt from 'church'.

These are just some thoughts and observations - take it for what it is worth.

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How much do we value the cost we paid for our freedom

Are you free? Are you truly free?
What did it cost you? Why would you give it away so freely?

I paid a dear price for my freedom. But sometimes I find that I give it away so cheaply.

When I give it away so cheaply I wonder how much I truly value it?
Moreover do I want to pay another price for it?

I had struggles growing up, just like most people. However I did not respond to those struggles with the healthiest of choices. I spent most of my 20s in depression crying out to God to free me. I started my healing journey in my early 30s - I went through every healing program I could get my hands on. I was desperate to get to that place of freedom I saw in other people. I forgave, I released, I accepted, I asserted, I proclaimed - and the list goes on. Each of these actions are a synopsis of a lot of time and self evaluation. My pursuit of freedom cost me a lot of time, money and energy. I am happy to say that I feel like I have gained a significant measure of freedom. I still want more - but I do have a foundation on which I can build a bright future.

My emotional freedom cost me a lot.
I might even have taken pride in the cost I paid for my freedom.

Yet I find times that I resort to my old ways of 'stinkin thinkin'. It is so easy to slip. It is easy to resort to the old paths - they had been so ingrained in my life.

Who can save me from such wretched path?
Praise be to Jesus for only through him do I have true freedom.

The cost I paid for my freedom does not compare to the cost he paid for mine. He values my freedom MUCH more than me. My eyes are on him to truly free me.

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! Romans 7:23-25 (NKJV)

I am humbled before him and his mercy. I am nothing without him. He is everything.

I set my sail with the right attitude/thinking and wait for him to move me to the next place.

Willing to wait for true fulfilled desires

Right after Saul died - the Philistines took over the land of Israel. David was anointed king but he had to fight to reclaim the kingdom that Saul lost. He and some mighty men were in a cave in the mountains and he had a desire for some water from the well of Bethlehem. Here is the account:

1 Chro 11:17 And David said with longing, “Oh, that someone would give me a drink of water from the well of Bethlehem, which is by the gate!” 18 So the three broke through the camp of the Philistines, drew water from the well of Bethlehem that was by the gate, and took it and brought it to David. Nevertheless David would not drink it, but poured it out to the LORD. 19 And he said, “Far be it from me, O my God, that I should do this! Shall I drink the blood of these men who have put their lives in jeopardy? For at the risk of their lives they brought it.” Therefore he would not drink it. (emphasis added)

David does four things:

1. He was unabashed in acknowledging his desire - without limitations.
2. He is offered a fulfillment of part of his desire.
3. He lays the semi-fulfilled desire before God.
4. He trusts God for the true fulfillment of the fullness of desire.
   

I have often wondered why David would not drink of the water his mighty men had so valiantly brought to him. Then I realized that David's true desire was to drink 'freely and unrestrained' from the well at Bethlehem. He was offered a one off chance to drink at great risk. Why would he say No to that seemingly lavished offer?

The answer to that questions lies at the heart of God, which David writes about in the psalms. Therefore, David looks to God to provide the way to fulfill his desire without constantly having to risk to fulfill it. He pours the "expensive" drink before God - as an offering. Thereby he puts a demand on God to truly fulfill the desire without having to fight for it constantly.

As the story goes, David and his men did end up risking their lives and fighting the Philistines. With every battle won, God was giving them territory and pushing the enemy out till one day David truly possessed the whole territory of Isreal. Then he could have as much water from the well at Bethlehem that he wanted!!!! His desire was truly fulfilled.

Now brining it home

We all have in us seeds of true desire. Even acknowledging those desires requires great faith and boldness. It is quite worth the pain required to identify and boldness required to acknowledge TRUE desires - especially if those desires are so out of reach. It is possible that in those unabashed desires we find the seeds of our God breathed destiny.

Having identified those desires, we have an opportunity to look to God to provide the means of fulfilling it without having to "break the rules" or fight for it regularly. Temptations will come that would give the illusion of fulfillment of desires but with a very subtle "only if" clause attached. We have the opportunity then to "pour that drink to God" and look to him for means to fulfill the desires in a sustainable way.

In the end, the fulfillment of desire itself is not as important as the trust we gain by leaning on God in every situation. I am not sure when David got a chance to drink from the well at Bethlehem. He had to fight many battles, some even far away from Bethlehem. David chose to trust God in every situation/battle he was facing no matter where it was. Then there came a point in time when he could drink of the well freely and unrestrained. So it is with us, after we identify our true desires, we have the opportunity to say no to temptations of settling and trust/lean on God to bring the fullness of that desire in a sustainable way.